Good Morning Oppo Aeronauts

"ttyymmnn" (ttyymmnn) 07/17/2020 at 10:14 • Filed to: good morning oppo

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My daily pill dispenser tells me that it’s Friday. That’s pretty much how I keep track these days. So, happy Friday.

Who wants to tell me about this airplane? I mean, I know what it is, but I’m interested to see you do. It is historically important. 

ClassicDatsunDebate > ttyymmnn 07/17/2020 at 10:29

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Well, looking at the pic, it’s a Meteor with propellers. Ironic that  it’s also the only jet fighter the Allies has in WWII.

ClassicDatsunDebate > ttyymmnn 07/17/2020 at 10:29

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Oh, and Happy Friday!

Darkbrador > ttyymmnn 07/17/2020 at 10:31

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A Gl oster Meteor converted to test Turboprop engine ?

(thanks Google)

Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available > ttyymmnn 07/17/2020 at 10:31

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It has wings that provide lift prop-o-plie rs to slice at the air. That is all I can tell you.

ttyymmnn > ClassicDatsunDebate 07/17/2020 at 10:36

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You are correct, but I was hoping for a bit more detail.

ttyymmnn > Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available 07/17/2020 at 10:37

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You are not wrong. What I find interesting is the leap in perception that the Wright Brothers made when they realized that a propeller is really just a spinning wing. 

ttyymmnn > Darkbrador 07/17/2020 at 10:37

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Cheaters never prosper.....

Or so I’ve been told. That’s not exactly the case these days.

Turbineguy: Nom de Zoom > ttyymmnn 07/17/2020 at 10:38

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Funky looking horizontal stab on this one. Between that and the wrong engines, I’d say it’s a Meteor that was built on a Monday morning. 

TheRealBicycleBuck > ttyymmnn 07/17/2020 at 10:39

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While I want to look it up, I don’t have time this morning. I shouldn’t be on Oppo at all today, but my brain is fried from the week and I need some time away from work to get my mind in the right place for an important meeting in an hour.

I just got off the phone with a particularly difficult project manager. Staying cordial and not giving her an earful of what I really think is mentally and physically draining. She’s demanding, inflexible, has trouble communicating, jumps to conclusions, and gets unreasonably loud and aggressive. I attribute that last one to her being the only daughter in a family with 12 boys. Every call with her is like a verbal boxing match.

I need to finish my coffee before I take on anything else this morning.

Oh yeah , g ood morning to you, too.

ttyymmnn > Turbineguy: Nom de Zoom 07/17/2020 at 10:40

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I believe the extra vertical stabilizers were required due to the turbulent air. Or something aeronautical. I am in no way an engineer.

ttyymmnn > TheRealBicycleBuck 07/17/2020 at 10:42

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Stress (n) : The confusion created when one’s mind overrides the body’s desire to   choke   the living shit o ut of some asshole who desperately deserves it.

Hang in there.

ClassicDatsunDebate > ttyymmnn 07/17/2020 at 10:43

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Ok...I’m gonna make this up on the spot, without wiking it.....

This is probably a postwar variant of the Meteor.  The, can’t remember....GE or RR jet engines were underpowered at the time and thes was probably a way to extend the viability of the airframe.  Note the 5 blade prop which indicates either late war or possibly post war.  Could also be a test bed for the new technology of turboprops.

Darkbrador > ttyymmnn 07/17/2020 at 10:44

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It’s not cheating, it’s researching. Right ?

Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available > ttyymmnn 07/17/2020 at 10:45

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Why don’t they just make the whole plane spin? Wait, that’s a helio-chopper. Heli-popper?

ClassicDatsunDebate > TheRealBicycleBuck 07/17/2020 at 10:48

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Non carborundum illigitimi

I got my PM certification just so that I could speak the same language as the enemy 

ttyymmnn > ClassicDatsunDebate 07/17/2020 at 10:48

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That’s pretty much it. It was a one-off test bed with Rolls Royce Trent turboprop engines. With this conversion, the Trent Meteor became the world’s first turboprop. It first flew in September 1945. Here’s an interesting shot of it flying with the No. 2 prop feathered.

ttyymmnn > Darkbrador 07/17/2020 at 10:50

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Exactly. The internet sucks in a lot of ways, but one way it does not suck is that you can instantly research just about anything with only the vaguest description of what you are looking for. 

BaconSandwich is tasty. > Turbineguy: Nom de Zoom 07/17/2020 at 10:51

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I was going to say “Yo dawg, we heard you like tail fins, so we put tail fins on your tail fins...” but you said it much more eloquently. :)

ttyymmnn > Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available 07/17/2020 at 10:51

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Well, back in the day, they used to make the whole engine spin.

ClassicDatsunDebate > ttyymmnn 07/17/2020 at 10:54

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Thanks for posting. I love this stuff. Think of all the innovations happening at that time. Kinda sad too, because most of our greatest technological leaps came because we wanted a more efficient way to kill each other.

Note the P in the circle beside the rondel, meaning this aircraft is a prototype.

Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available > ttyymmnn 07/17/2020 at 10:55

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Why, may I ask?

ttyymmnn > Turbineguy: Nom de Zoom 07/17/2020 at 10:56

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Found this :

A number of problems were found with the prop wash and directional instability

So I guess my guess was correct.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available 07/17/2020 at 11:00

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Mostly because it allows for fewer moving parts, allows the engine to cool at a standstill more readily (a real problem with some of these early engines), provides a flywheel so it’s easy to start, and so on. Every cylinder oils the same this way, every cylinder gets fed fuel the same, every cylinder has the same ignition.

The downside is that it makes a giant gyroscope that pitches you into the ground on right turns and leaks like a mofo. And the crankcase has to be balanced.

ttyymmnn > Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available 07/17/2020 at 11:00

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Unlike stationary aircraft engines, in which a turning crankshaft drives the propeller, in rotaries the whole engine spins around a stationary crankshaft. The prop is bolted directly to the engine and spins with it. The primary reason for the rotary configuration was to provide adequate cooling. Because the cylinder heads are perpendicular to the slipstream and whirling through the air, the engine stayed within safe temperature limits. Engine cooling was a challenge in the first decade of the 20th century, even with water-cooled engines, and rotaries presented a viable solution to the problem. ( history.net )

Wiki also has an article about them. I’m sure there are some very smart people here on Oppo who can add their thoughts.

Turbineguy: Nom de Zoom > ttyymmnn 07/17/2020 at 11:02

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I assume so; turboprops were new then and CFD analysis wasn’t a thing yet. 

Turbineguy: Nom de Zoom > ttyymmnn 07/17/2020 at 11:03

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Today’s theme is ‘weird mutant Meteors’. 

ttyymmnn > Turbineguy: Nom de Zoom 07/17/2020 at 11:20

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Only Vespas... > ttyymmnn 07/17/2020 at 11:37

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Nice one! Odd but understandable they would do that. Early jets were so thirsty. Even now, on some stages turboprops are more efficient. I always thought the Meteor was one of the best looking earl y jets. The symmetry I guess.  Must have been an early conversion since she still is dressed in WWII camo.

ttyymmnn > Only Vespas... 07/17/2020 at 11:40

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The conversion was made in 1945 to an existing airframe that had already been beefed up to allow different engine installation. Flew til 1946, then was restored to standard jet engines. Eventually scrapped.

Literally for years I’ve been meaning to write a piece about turboprop vs turbojet, and why they were adopted early and are still around. It has a lot to do with fuel economy, because you can move more air with a big-ass propeller, and the constant speed at which they run. 

Roadkilled > ttyymmnn 07/17/2020 at 11:54

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There are plenty of smart people here who can add their thoughts. However, I would like to represent the community of dumb people adding their thoughts.

There was one other very minor advantage of the rotary engine. The engine itself acted as a flywheel. Big wooden propellers had some flex, and each combustion cycle in a cylinder would put extra torsional strain on the crankshaft as the propeller whipped around and then flexed a little . The rotary engine’s smoother rotation reduced strain on the crankshaft. Better metallurgy resolved this issue.

ttyymmnn > Roadkilled 07/17/2020 at 11:58

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Thanks. And, in the spirit of radial engines, here is one of my all-time favorite YT videos (in two parts).

jeepoftheseus > ttyymmnn 07/17/2020 at 12:33

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Thanks for sharing that. He does an extraordinary job explaining the mechanics of that. I feel like you could show that to someone with an interest in, but no knowledge of, how an ICE functions and come away understanding the basics of it all. He doesn’t go into any more detail than he needs to. No fuel, spark or the importance of compression mentioned at all in the first video. Gonna have to watch the second one later today!

Seriously though, I can’t even explain the purpose of a spark plug to my wife without either leaving it at “it lights the fuel off and makes booms happen ” or going down ten minutes worth of rabbit holes. The second approach works best when I’m buying parts though as around 90 seconds in she says “fine get the more expensive one if you must”.... God bless her.

ttyymmnn > jeepoftheseus 07/17/2020 at 12:45

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I feel like you could show that to someone with an interest in, but no knowledge of, how an ICE functions and come away understanding the basics of it all.

That pretty much describes me. I am fascinated by all of it, and understand it, but don’t really know it. I have enjoyed watching Wheeler Dealers for the explanations that Edd China and Ant Anstead give about the basics of how things work without going into agonizing detail.

You’ve probably seen this, but it’s worth another share. Probably the best GIFs I’ve ever seen on the workings of an ICE.

https://animagraffs.com/how-a-car-engine-works/

jeepoftheseus > ttyymmnn 07/17/2020 at 13:30

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Whoa! I have not seen the whole page of that. I thought it was just the four stroke part. Neat!

ttyymmnn > jeepoftheseus 07/17/2020 at 14:04

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I think they have other GIFs that are equally instructive and awesome.

f86sabre > ttyymmnn 07/17/2020 at 16:41

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They found another way to make it work.

SmugAardvark > ttyymmnn 07/17/2020 at 18:47

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Before scrolling down to the comments, I said to myself, “That’s weird. I t looks like a Gloster Meteor. But Meteors were jet aircraft. Something isn’t right. I need coffee, or a nap .”

Strangely enough, I had no idea they ever did such a conversion on one.

pip bip - choose Corrour > ttyymmnn 07/17/2020 at 20:05

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harrier jump jet prototype?

ttyymmnn > pip bip - choose Corrour 07/17/2020 at 20:15

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Well, the Harrier was originally British, and this is a British plane, so, yes?

gmporschenut also a fan of hondas > Only Vespas... 07/17/2020 at 21:44

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thirsty and also due to the much higher temps, much short engine lifes.